Deposition - Pons JordanDéposition - Pons Jordan

Document IDDocument ID: MS609-0566
How to citeComment citer : Rehr, JP. The Registry of the “Great Inquisition” at Toulouse, 1245-46: Edition of BM Toulouse MS609 (doc. MS609-0566). http://medieval-inquisition.huma-num.fr/documents/MS609-0566, acc. 2020-10-21

EditionÉdition

ReferencesRéférences :
  • Jean Duvernoy, ed.,  Le manuscrit 609 de la bibliothèque municipale de Toulouse. Lauragais 1245-1246, 1253,  http://jean.duvernoy.free.fr/text/listetexte.htm,  accessed 2017-08-01: 94-95
  • Austin Evans, ed.,  Interrogatoires subis par des hérétiques albigeois par-devant frère Bernard de Caux, inquisiteur, de 1245 à 1253,  BX4890 B47 1255g , Butler Library, Columbia University, New York
Edition statusEtat de l'édition:
  • LatinLatin-draftbrouillon (last revisiondenière revision 2018-12-10)
  • EnglishAnglais-draftbrouillon (last revisiondenière revision 2018-12-10)

  in muro estItem. Anno a quo supra III Nonas Iulii.1 Poncius Iordani testis iuratus dixit quod apud Sanctum Martinum in casale Poncii Martini ubi habebat tunc aream collectores decimarum vidit Petrum Arnaldi et socium suum, hereticos. Et vidit ibi cum eis Hysarnum de Gibelo; et Poncium Martin, dominum ipsius casalis; et Bernardum Martini, fratrem ipsius Poncii Martini ; et W. Bagau,   scriptorem , qui disputabat cum dictis hereticis. Et omnes audierunt predicationem eorum, et ipse testis et omnes alii, preter dictum W. Bebau, scriptorem qui est de Castro Novo, adoraverunt dictos hereticos. Et sunt XII anni.

Item. Alia vice b in domo Ysarni de Gibello vidit Willelmum Arnaldi et socium suum, hereticos. Et vidit ibi cum eis ipsum Ysarnum, dominum domus; et Andrevam, uxorem ipsius Ysarni. Et ad instantiam et preces dicti Ysarni ipsi hereticos dederunt ipsum testem mutuo XX solidos Tholosanorum. Et alios adoravit dictos hereticos. Et in Festo Omnium Sanctorum proximo venienti erunt VI anni.

Item. Transactis XV diebus rediit ipse testis ad dictam domum ipsius Ysarni de Gibello, ad dictos hereticos, et reddidit dictos hereticos denarios quos mutuaverat ab ipsis  et neminem vidit ibi nisi quos alia vice viderat, scilicet dictum Ysarnum et Andrevam, uxorem eius . Et omnes adoraverunt dictos hereticos. 

Item. Alia vice clientes qui exierunt de Monte Ferran miserunt quendam socium eorum nomine Brassilhacum ad  ipsum testem ut emeret ipsis clientibus pannos ad opus vestium, quia volebant ire in auxilium et subsidium domini Comitis Tholosani qui tenebat tunc civitatem Carchassone obsessam, et sicut dicti clientes mandaverunt ipsi testis ita fecit. Et ipse testis et dictus Brissilhacus emerunt tot pannos quot fuerunt necessarii. Et postea ambo iverunt apud silvam de Granha et invenerunt dictos clientes ibi et ipse c testis scidit et suit vestes dictis clientibus. Et eadem die vidit ad eos venientes Arnaldum de Prato et Willelmus Fabri et quosdam alios hereticos usque ad IIIIor. Et sunt nomina dictorum clientium de quibus recolit ipse testis<h> P. Fabri de Lauraco et <Cal?s?s> de Laurac; et Ysarnus de Gibel;  et Peire Aura; et Raimundus de Fonters; et Arnald de Fuxo; et Willelmus de Lauraguel, nepos dicti Brassilhac ; et Montoleu de Monte Ferran prope Avinionem. Et tunc ipse testis et omnes alii adoraverunt dictos hereticos ibi. Et postea omnes <...> exceptis hereticis venerunt usque ad Laurac. Et ipse testis dimisit eos ibi.

Item. Dixit quod credidit predictos hereticos esse bonos homines et amicos Die et esse veraces et habere bonam fidem et posse salvari per ipsos licet sciret quod ecclesia <...> persequeretur eos. Item. Requisitus de erroribus, dixit quod nunquam audivit eos loquentes. Et de hoc fuit confessus fratri Willelmo Arnaldi, inquisitori, apud Castrum Novum et fratri Ferrario apud Limos. Et sunt XII anni quod primo credidit hereticos esse bonos et sunt IIIIor quod ultimo dimisit.

  • a  supp. et die
  • b exp. W
  • c exp. ib
  • 1  1245-07-03

[8] in muro estItem. Anno a quo supra III Nonas Iulii.1 Poncius Iordani testis iuratus dixit quod apud Sanctum Martinum in casale Poncii Mar[9] tini ubi habebat tunc aream collectores decimarum vidit P[etrum] Arnaldi et socium suum, hereticos. Et vidit ibi cum eis Hysarnum de[10] Gibelo; et Poncium Martin, dominum ipsius casalis; et B[ernardum] Martini, fratrem ipsius Poncii Martini ; et W. Bagau, [11] scriptorem , qui disputabat cum dictis hereticis. Et omnes audierunt predicationem eorum, et ipse testis et omnes alii, preter dictum W.[12] Bebau, scriptorem qui est de Castro Novo, adoraverunt dictos hereticos. Et sunt XII anni. Item. Alia vice b in domo Ysarni de Gi[13] bello vidit W[illelmum] Arnaldi et socium suum, hereticos. Et vidit ibi cum eis ipsum Ysarnum, dominum domus; et Andrevam, uxorem ipsius Ysarni. Et[14] ad instantiam et preces dicti Ysarni ipsi hereticos dederunt ipsum testem mutuo XX solidos Tholosanorum. Et alios adoravit dictos[15] hereticos. Et in Festo Omnium Sanctorum proximo venienti erunt VI anni. Item. Transactis XV diebus rediit ipse testis ad[16] dictam domum ipsius Ysarni de Gibello, ad dictos hereticos, et reddidit dictos hereticos denarios quos mutuaverat ab ipsis[17] et neminem vidit ibi nisi quos alia vice viderat, scilicet dictum Ysarnum et Andrevam, uxorem eius . Et omnes adoraverunt dictos hereticos.[18] Item. Alia vice clientes qui exierunt de Monte Ferran miserunt quendam socium eorum nomine Brassilhacum ad[19] ipsum testem ut emeret ipsis clientibus pannos ad opus vestium, quia volebant ire in auxilium et subsidium domini Co[20] mitis Tholosani qui tenebat tunc civitatem Carchassone obsessam, et sicut dicti clientes mandaverunt ipsi testis[21] ita fecit. Et ipse testis et dictus Brissilhacus emerunt tot pannos quot fuerunt necessarii. Et postea ambo iverunt[22] apud silvam de Granha et invenerunt dictos clientes ibi et ipse c testis scidit et suit vestes dictis cl[23] ientibus. Et eadem die vidit ad eos venientes Arnaldum de Prato et Willelmus Fabri et quosdam alios hereticos usque ad IIIIor. Et sunt[24] nomina dictorum clientium de quibus recolit ipse testis<h> P. Fabri de Lauraco et <Cal?s?s> de Laurac; et Ysarnus de Gibel; [25] et P[eire] Aura; et Raimundus de Fonters; et Arnald de Fuxo; et Willelmus de Lauraguel, nepos dicti Brassilhac ; et Montoleu de Monte[26] Ferran prope Avinionem. Et tunc ipse testis et omnes alii adoraverunt dictos hereticos ibi. Et postea omnes <...> exceptis hereticis venerunt usque[27] ad Laurac. Et ipse testis dimisit eos ibi. Item. Dixit quod credidit predictos hereticos esse bonos homines et amicos Die et esse veraces et habere bonam[28] fidem et posse salvari per ipsos licet sciret quod ecclesia <...> persequeretur eos. Item. Requisitus de erroribus, dixit quod nunquam[29] audivit eos loquentes. Et de hoc fuit confessus fratri Willelmo Arnaldi, inquisitori, apud Castrum Novum et fratri Ferrario apud Li[30] mos. Et sunt XII anni quod primo credidit hereticos esse bonos et sunt IIIIor quod ultimo dimisit.

  • a  supp. et die
  • b exp. W
  • c exp. ib
  • 1  1245-07-03

He is in prisonItem. year as above, 3rd Nones of July. The sworn witness Pons Jordan said that at Saint-Martin-Lalande at Pons Martin's farm, which had a threshing floor at the time, he saw Peire Arnald and his companion, heretics. He saw there with them Ysarn de Gibel and Pons Martin, the dominum of the holding, and Bernard Martin, brother of Pons Martin, and W. Bagau, scribe, who argued with the aforesaid heretics. Everyone listened to their preaching, and the witness and everyone else except the aforesaid W. Bagau, who is from Castelnaudary, adored the aforesaid heretics. This was 12 years ago.

Item. Another time in the house of Ysarn de Gibel he saw Guilhem Arnald and his companion, heretics, and he saw there with them Ysarn himself, the dominum of the house, and Andrea, wife of Ysarn. At the insistence and request of the aforesaid Ysarn, the aforesaid heretics gave the witness a loan of 20 Toulouse solidii. And everyone adored the aforesaid heretics. This was 6 years ago as of the coming All Saints day.

Item. 15 days later the witness went to the aforesaid heretics at above-mentioned house of Ysarn de Gibel, and he returned to those heretics the denarios that they had lent him. He did not see anyone there, except those he had seen previously, namely the aforesaid Ysarn and his wife Andrea. Everyone adored the aforesaid heretics.

Item. At another time, men at arms from Montferrand sent a companion of theirs called Brasilhac to the witness in order to buy those men at arms cloth for work clothes (war gear), because they wanted to go to the aid and assistance of the Lord Count of Toulouse who was laying siege to Carcassonne. The witness did as ordered by the aforesaid men at arms. The witness and the aforesaid Brasilhac bought as much cloth as was needed, and afterwards they both went to the woods of Granha. The men at arms came there, and the witness cut and sewed garments for the aforesaid clientibus. That same day he saw Arnald Prader and Guilhem Faure and some other heretics, numbering around four, who had come to meet them. The names of the aforesaid clientum whom he could recollect were P. Faure de Laurac, Calhavel de Laurac, Ysarn de Gibel, P. Aura, Raimund de Fonters, Arnald de Fuxo, Guilhem de Lauraguel, nephew of the aforesaid Brassilhac, and Montoleu de Montferrand near Avignonet. Then the witness and everyone else adored the aforesaid heretics there. And then everyone except the heretics left for Laurac and the witness left them there.

Item. He said that he believed the above-mentioned heretics to be good men, friends of God, to be true, to have good faith and that one could be saved by them, even though the Church persecuted them. Item. Asked about errors, he said that he never heard them speak them. And the aforesaid was confessed to brother Guilhem Arnald at Castelnaudary and brother Ferrier at Limoux. It was 16 years ago that he first believed the heretics to be good, and left that belief 3 years ago.

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  • SourceSource: BM Toulouse MS 609
  • Shelf Mark/FolioCote/Folio: 38v
  • Document DateDate de document: 1245-07-03
  • GroupGroupe: Saint-Martin-Lalande (1)

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  • Andrea de Gibel
  • Arnaud de Foix
  • Arnaud Prader
  • Bernard Martin senior
  • Brasilhac
  • Ferrier, frater ordinis predicatorum, inquisitor
  • Guilhem Arnaud
  • Guilhem Arnaud, OP
  • Guilhem de Lauraguel
  • Guilhem Faure de la Porta de Forquer
  • heretics not named
  • Montolieu de Montferrand
  • Peire Faure
  • Peire Arnaud
  • Peire Aura
  • Pons Jordan
  • Pons Martin
  • Raimund de Fonters
  • Raimund VII Saint-Gilles
  • W. Babau
  • Ysarn de Gibel

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  • area_pons_martin_consul_sml-au
  • Avignonet-Lauragais
  • Carcassonne
  • Castelnaudary
  • domus of Ysarn Gibeldomus de Ysarn Gibel
  • Laurac
  • Limoux
  • Montferrand
  • woods of Granhabois de Granha

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  • MS609-0566-1
  • MS609-0566-2
  • MS609-0566-3
  • MS609-0566-4
  • MS609-0566-5

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