MS609-3750 : Deposition - Bernard Alzeu juniorMS609-3750 : Déposition - Bernard Alzeu junior

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Anno quo supra II Ydus Julii.1Bernardus Alzeu, filius quondam Bernardi Alzeu , requisitus de veritate dicende de se et de aliis vivis et mortuis super crimine heresis et Valdesie, testis iuratus dixit quod ante confessionem quam fecit de heresi fratri Willelmo Arnaldi et socio suo, olim inquisitori, vidit apud Sanctum Martinum in domo patris suiduos hereticos quorum nomina ignorat qui steterunt  ibi per VIII dies et iacuerunt ibi et comederunt. Et vidit ibi cum eis Bernardum Alzeu, patrem ipsius testis ; et Raimundum, fratrem ipsius  testis; et Guiraudam, sororem ipsius testis ; et Hisarnum de Gibel, qui adduxit ibi dictos hereticos. Et ibi ipse testis et dictus Hysarnus et dictus pater ipsius testim adoraverunt plures dictos hereticos quilibet pro se ter flexis genibus dicendo “Benedicite boni homines, orate Deum pro me.” Sed non vidit dictum Raimundum et Guirudam, sororem ipsius testis , adorare, sed bene comedant quos dabat sibi heretici. Et ipse testis et dictus patrem ipsius testis comederunt pluries cum dictis hereticis in eadem mensa et de pane benedicto ab eis. Et sunt X anni vel circa.

Item. Vidit apud Sanctum Martinum in domo Hysarni de Gibel quibus ipse testis portavit vel panem vel vinum de mandato patris sui, sed nullum hominem vidit ibi cum dictis hereticis, nec adoravit eos. Et sunt IX anni vel circa.

Item. Vidit alia vice in domo ipsius testisduos hereticos quorum nomina ignorat qui steterunt ibi per unum vel per duos dies, et iacuerunt et comederunt ibi. Et ipse testis et dictus pater ipsius testis adoraverunt dictos hereticos, sed non vidit Ramundum, fratrem ipsius testis , et Geraldam, sororem ipsius testis , adorare quia pueri erant. Et venerunt ibi ad videndum dictos hereticos Poncius Mir, miles ; et Mir Landa et Serdana, uxorem eius ; et Alazaicia, [F°188r]    uxorem Poncii ; et Ermessendem, uxorem Bernardi Arrezat . Sed non adoravit nec vidit adorare eos dictos hereticos. Et sunt VIII anni vel circa.

Item. Vidit apud Sanctum Martinum in domo Willelmi Faure de Porta Rotgerias hereticas quibus ipse testis portavit vinum de mandato patris sui et vidit ibi cum eis dictum Willelmum Faure. Sed ipse testis non adoravit dictas hereticas quod recolat, nec vidit adorare. Et sunt VIII anni vel circa.

Item. Vidit apud Sanctum Martinum in domo Hysarni de Gibel duos hereticos quorum nomina ignorat et vidit ibi cum eis Poncium Porquerii et plures alios de Sancto Martino quos non cognovit. Sed ipse testis non adoravit dictos hereticos nec vidit adorare. Et sunt VII anni vel circa.2

Item. Dixit quod cum ipse testis vellet videre patrem suum, hereticum , invenit apud Lauracum Petrum Faure de Casal Ranols a quo ipse testis quesivit si sciret ubi erat pater. Ipsius testis quo audito dictus Petrus Faure tradidit ipsi testis Raimundum Guiraudi de Sancto Stephano qui duxit ipsum testem in nemore del Quier   ubi invenit dictum patrem suum, hereticum, in quadam cabana simul cum aliis hereticis, usque ad VIII hereticis. Et ibi ipse testis et dictus Ramundus Gairaudi adoraverunt dictos hereticos. Et dictus pater ipsius testis dedit ipsi testis XVIII denarios Tholosanorum. Et hoc fuit post dictam confessionem.

Item. Dixit quod vidit apud Sanctum Martinum extra villam in plano Bernardi Willelmi Arnaldum Praderii et socium a suum, hereticos. Et vidit cum eis Arnaldum Andree; Petrum Folc de Sancto Martino; Ramundum Aichardi de Gaiano; et Arnaldum  macellarii de Lauraco. Et omnes et ipse testis adoraverunt dictos hereticos. Et dicti heretici dederunt ipsi testis III solidos quos misit ipse testis  pater suus, hereticus . Et inde duxerunt et associaverunt dictos hereticos usque ad caminum et omnes et ipse testis in recessu adoraverunt dictos hereticos. Quo facto, recesserunt heretici et dicti Raimundi Aichardi et Arnaldi macellarii cum eis. Et hoc fuit post dictam confessionem.

Predictos hereticos credidit esse bonos homines et veraces et amico Dei et habere bonam fidem et posse salvari per ipsos licet sciret quod ecclesia persequeretur eos. Et audivit hereticos predicantes quod deus non fecerat visibilia quod in baptismo et matrimonio non est salus quod hostia sacrata non erat corpus Christi et quod mortuorum corpora non resurgent. Sed ipse testis non credidit predictis erroribus. Et sunt XIIII anni quod primo credidit esse bonos homines et stetit in illa credulatem usque ad confessionem quam fecit fratri Ferrario quam concessit esse veram. Et postea non vidit hereticos. Et recognovit quod male fecit quia olim in iudicio constitutus coram fratre Willlemo Arnaldi et socio suo, olim inquisitoribus, iuravit et requisitus negavit quod non vidit nec  adoravit hereticos nec aliquid fecit vel dixit cum eis.

Item. Recognoscit quod male fecit quia postquam abiuravit heresim et iuravit persequi hereticos, vidit et adoravit hereticos et audivit predicationem eorum, duxit et associavit eos, et credidit eos esse bonos homines, comedit cum eis, et de pane benedicto ab eis. Hec deposuit apud Tholosam coram fratribus Bernardo et Iohanne, inquisitoribus, et abiuravit heresum et iuravit et cetera et obligavit se et sua ad parendum mandatis inquisitorum et concessit fieri  publicum instrumentum. Testes: Arnaldus, prior Sancti Saturnini; Fortius, capellanus Sancti Saturnini; Amelius, capellanus Sancti Stephani; et Petrus Ariberti, publicus notarius, qui hec scripsit.

EnglishAnglais

Item. Year as above, 2nd Ides of July. The sworn witness Bernard Alzeu, son of the late Bernard Alzeu, asked to tell the truth about himself and others, living or dead, regarding the crime of heresy and Waldensianism, said that before his confession of heresy to brother Guilhem Arnald, and his companion, erstwhile inquisitors, he saw at Saint-Martin-Lalande in his father's house two heretics, whose names he did not know, who they stayed there for 8 days and slept and ate there. He saw with them Bernard Alzeu, father of the witness, and Raimund, brother of the witness, and Guiralda, sister of the witness, and Ysarn de Gibel, who brought the heretics there. The witness, and said Ysarn, and said father of the witness, adored the heretics there many times, each bending at the knee three times saying, "Bless us, good men, pray to God for me." He did not see the aforesaid Raimund nor Guiralda, sister of the witness, adore, but they did eat what the heretics gave them. The witness and aforesaid father of the witness ate with the aforesaid heretics many times at his table, including bread blessed by them. This was about 10 years ago.

Item. He saw at Saint-Martin-Lalande, in the house of Ysarn de Gibel, someone to whom the witness brought either bread or wine at the instruction of his father, however he did not see any other men with the aforesaid heretics nor did he adore them. This was about 9 years ago.

Item. He saw another time in the witness' house two heretics, whose names he did not know, who stayed there for one or two days, and slept and ate there. The witness and the aforesaid father of the witness adored the aforesaid heretics there, however the witness did not see Raimund, brother of the witness, nor Guiralda, sister of the witness, adore, as they were young. And Pons Mir, knight, and Mir de Lalanda, and Cerdana, his wife, and Alazais, wife of Pons, and Aymersend wife of Bernard Mir Acezat came there to see the aforesaid heretics. But [the witness] did not adore, nor saw adoring of the aforesaid heretics. This was about 8 years ago.

Item. He saw at Saint-Martin-Lalande, in the house of Guilhem Fabri, the Roger sisters, heretics, to whom the witness brought wine at the instruction of his father. He saw there with them said Guilhem Faure. The witness did not adore the aforesaid heretics there that he recalled, nor did he see adoring. This was about 8 years ago.

Item. He saw at Saint-Martin-Lalande, in the house of Ysarn de Gibel, two heretics whose names he did not know. He saw there with them Pons Porquer and many others from Saint-Martin-Lalande whom he did not know. The witness did not adore the aforesaid heretics nor saw adoring. This was about 7 years ago.

Item. He said that when he was wanting to see his father, heretic, he went to Peire Faure of Casalrenoux at Laurac whom the witness asked if he knew where his father was. On listening, the aforesaid Peire Faure brought the witness to Raimund Guirald of Saint-Esteve who led the witness into the woods of Quiriès where the aforesaid father, heretic, entered a cottage along with other heretics, up to 8 heretics. The witness and said Raimund Guirald adored the aforesaid heretics, and the aforesaid father of the witness gave him 18 denarios of Toulouse. This was after the above-mentioned confession.

Item. He said that he saw, outside Saint-Martin-Lalande, in Bernard Guilhem's field, Arnald Prader and his companions, heretics. He saw with them Arnald Andree, Peire Folc of Saint-Martin-Lalande, Raimund Aichart of Gaja-la-Selve, and Arnald Mazaler de Laurac. Everyone and the witness adored the aforesaid heretics. And the aforesaid heretics gave the witness 3 solidos which the witness gave to his father, heretic. Then they led and accompanied the aforesaid heretics to the road, and upon leaving the witness and everyone adored the aforesaid heretics. That done, the heretics left, said Raimund Aichart and Arnald Macellar with them. This was after the above-mentioned confession.

He believed the above-mentioned heretics to be good men, truthful, friends of God, to have good faith, and that one could be saved by them, even though he knew that the Church persecuted them. He heard the heretics preach that God did not make visible things, that there is no salvation in baptism or matrimony, that the holy host is not the body of Christ, and that dead bodies do not rise. However the witness did not believe the aforesaid errors. He first believed them to be good men 14 years ago, and kept to that belief until making his confession to brother Ferrier, which he believed to be the truth. Afterwards he did not see heretics. He recognized that he did wicked things when in court before brother Guilhem Arnald and his associate, erstwhile inquisitors, sworn in and asked, he denied that he had seen or adored heretics or done anything or spoken with them.

Item. He recognized that he did wicked things as after he had abjured heresy and swore to persecute heretics, he saw and and adored heretics, listened to their preaching, led and accompanied them, believed them to be good men, and ate with them the bread they blessed. This was given at Toulouse before brothers Bernard and Johan, inquisitors. He abjured heresy and swore, etc., and committed himself and his to follow the instructions of inquisitors, and accepted this to be a public document. Witnesses: Arnald, prior of Saint-Sernin; P. Fort, chaplain of Saint-Sernin; Amelh, chaplain of Saint-Etienne; and Peire Aribert, public notary, who wrote this.