MS609-0196 : Deposition - Jordan del MasMS609-0196 : Déposition - Jordan del Mas

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Item. Anno quo supra IIIo Ydus Maii.1Iordanus, dominus de Manso, miles, testis iuratus dixit quod vidit Iohannem Cambiaire et socium suum, hereticos, apud Mansum in domo Petri de Sancto Andrea vel Cap de Porc . Et vidit ibi cum eis Bernardum del Mas, fratrem eius qui loquitur; Bertrandum de Quiders; et Companhs; Petrum Gauta seniorem; et Garnerium; et plures alios de nominibus quorum non recolit. Et ipse testis adoravit ibi dictos hereticos flexis genibus ter dicendo, “Benedicite probi homines, rogate Deum pro nobis.” Et audierunt predicationem eorum. Et sunt XV anni vel circa.

Item. Dixit quod duxit dictos hereticos de quodam nemore prope Mirapeisusque ad Sanctum Iulianum  in Lauragues. Et ibi dicti heretici rogaverunt ipsem testem quod iret ex parte ipsorum ad Beatricem, uxorem Bernardi de Sancto Iuliano ,  et quod diceret dictae dominae quod mitteret quendam hominem qui duceret eos ubi ituri erant, quod fecit. Et invenit dictam dominam iacentem in lecto et dixit ei sicut dicti heretici ipsi testi dixerant, et dicta domina tradidit dictis hereticis quendam hominem de villa qui duceret dictos hereticos, quem hominem ipse testis non novit. Et erat cum ipso teste Ysarnus de Mont Server defunctus. Et dictus testis dimisit ibi dictos hereticos, sed non adoravit nec vidit adorare. Et fuit eodem tempore.

Item. Dixit quod vidit apud Montem Securum in domo Ramundi de Perreilha, militis , Bertrandum Martini et socium suum, hereticos. Et vidit ibi cum eis uxorem dicti Raimundi de Perreilh; et duas filias eiusdem domine; et Arnaldum Rogger, fratrem de Peirelhi. Et ipse testis adoravit ibi dictos hereticos, sed non vidit alios adoraverunt quod recolat. Et sunt VI anni vel circa.

Item. Dixit quod vidit Bertrandum Martini apud Mansum in domo Bernardi de Quiders et vidit ibi cum eis ipsum Bernardum de Quiders;  [F°16r]  et Bertrandum, fratrem dicti Bernardi; et Garniers; et plures alios de quibus non recolit. Et ipse testis adoravit ibi dictos  hereticos, sed non recolit de aliis si adoraverunt vel non, tamen bene credidit quod alii adoraverunt quia non veniebant simul sed separatim. Et sunt VI anni vel circa.

Item. Dixit quod vidit Bernardum de Mairevila et socium suum, hereticos, apud Mansum in domo Willelmi Vital . Et vidit ibi cum eis Aribertum, fratrem ipsius testis; et ipsum Willelmum Vitalis; et Seguram, uxorem ipsius Willelmi. Et ipse testis  et omnes alii adoraverunt ibi dictos hereticos. Et sunt Ve anni vel circa.

Item. Vidit Bertrandum Marti et socium suum, hereticos, apud Mansum in domo Willelmi de Canast . Et vidit ibi Garnerium; et Petrum Gauta seniorem; et Poncium Garnier, filium dicti Garnerii ;  et Flors, sororiam ipsius testis, uxorem Guailhardi, fratris ipsius testis; et uxorem Bernardi Barraucontra uxorem Bernardi Barrau . Et ipse testis et omnes alii adoraverunt ibi dictos hereticos. Et fuit eodem tempore.

Item. Dixit quod vidit Prader et socium suum, hereticos, apud Mansum in domo   Raimundi de Quiders , nepotis ipsius testis. Et vidit ibi ipsum Raimundum de Quiders et Willelmam, matrem ipsius Raimundi.  Et dicti heretici comedebant et dictus testis adoravit ibi dictos hereticos sed non vidit alios adorare. Et sunt V anni.

Item. Dixit quod vidit Raimundum de Narrica, hereticum, apud Mansum in domo Rique , matris dicti heretici. Et vidit ibi plures homines extraneos quos non cognovit et Godall, qui venerat ibi cum ipso qui loquitur. Et ipse testis et Godalh adoraverunt ibi dictos hereticos. Et fuit eodem tempore.Et dum ipse exiebat de domo dicte Rique invenit in introitu domus Stephanum de Rozengues et Petrum Gauta seniorem.

Item dixit quod vidit duos hereticos apud Mansum in domo Petri  de Sancto Andreu . Et vidit ibi Raimundum Gauta. Et ipse testis adoravit ibi dictos hereticos sed non vidit dictum Raimundum adoravit quia ipse testis invenit dictum Raimundum in dicta domo. Et fuit eodem tempore.

Predictos hereticos credidit esse bonos homines et habere bonam fidem et esse veraces et amicos Dei et posse salvari per ipsos. Et audivit eos dicentes errores de visibilibus quod Deus non fecerat ea, et quod hostia sacrata non erat corpus Christi, et quod baptismum, et matrimonium non valebant ad salutem, et quod corpora homines mortuorum non resurgent, sed ipse non credidit tunc sicut ipsi dicebant. Et sunt XX anni quod primo credidit hereticos esse bonos et sunt Ve anni quod non credidit. Alibi non vidit hereticos nec aliquid dedit nec misit nec ab eis accepit, excepto quod dedit eis quadam vice ficus. Et hec omnia fuit confessus fratri Ferrario apud Limos.  

Postea dixit quod vidit in domo Poncii Gran Bernardum de Maire vila et socium suum, hereticos. Et vidit ibi cum eis Iordanum de Quiders et Willelmum Aimer. Sed non adoravit nec vidit adorare. Et sunt V anni vel circa.

Et abiuravit heresim et iuravit et cetera. Recognovit etiam quod male fecit quia postquam abiuravit heresim tempore pacis Parisius facte et iuravit persequi hereticos a et cetera, credidit et adoravit hereticos. Testes: Arnaldus, prior Sancti Saturnini; et frater Odo, Ordinis Predicatorum; et frater Bernardus, inquisitor legit.

EnglishAnglais

Item. Year as above, 3rd Ides of May. The sworn witness Jordan, lord of Mas-Saintes-Puelles and knight, said that he saw Johan Cambiaire and his companion, heretics, at Mas-Saintes-Puelles in the house of Peire Saint-Andrea or Cap-de-Porc, and he saw with them Bernar, brother of the deponent, Bertrand de Quiders, Companh, Peire Gauta senior, Garnier, and many others whose names he did not recall. The witness adored the aforesaid heretics there, bending three times at the knee, saying, "Bless us, good men, pray to God for us." And they listened to their preaching. This was about 15 years ago.

Item. He said that he led the aforementioned heretics from some woods near Mirepoix to Saint-Julia in the Lauragais, and the aforesaid heretics asked the witness on the way that he go to Beatrice, wife of Bernard de Saint-Julia. And he said that the aforesaid domina sent some man who led them there where they were going anyway, which he did. And he came upon the aforesaid domina lying in bed, and he said she was there just as the heretics had told him, and the aforesaid domina handed the aforesaid heretics over to some fellow of the village who led away the aforesaid heretics; the witness did not know the fellow. And there with the witness was the late Ysarn de Mont Server, and he left the aforesaid heretics there. But he did not adore them, nor saw others adore. This was the same period.

Item. He said that he saw Bertrand Marti and his companion, heretics, in the house of Raimund de Pereille, knight, at Montségur, and he saw there with them the wife of the aforesaid Raimund de Pereille, and two daughters of the lords, and Arnald Roger brother of Raimund de Peirelh. And the witness adored the aforesaid heretics there, but he did not see others adore that he recalled. This was about 6 years ago.

Item. He said that he saw Bertrand Marti at Mas-Saintes-Puelles in the house of Bernard de Quiders, and he saw there with them Bernard de Quiders himself, Bertrand, the brother of said Bernard, Garnier, and many others whom he did not recall. The witness adored the aforesaid heretics there, but did not recall whether others adored or not, however he believed that they adored because they came not together but separately. This was about 6 years ago.

Item. He said [that] he saw Bernard de Mairevilla and his companion, heretics, in the house of Guilhem Vidal at Mas-Saintes-Puelles, and he saw there with them Aribert del Mas, brother of the witness, and Guilhem Vidal himself, and Segura, wife of Guilhem. The witness and everyone there adored the aforesaid heretics. This was about 5 years ago.

contradicting the wife of Bernard BarrauItem. He saw Bertrand Marti and his companion, heretics, in the house of Guilhem Canast (Senior) at Mas-Saintes-Puelles, and he saw there Garnier, and Peire Gauta senior, and Pons Garnier, son of said Garnier, and Flors, the witness' sister and wife of the witness' brother Galhard, and the wife of Bernard Barrau. The witness himself and everyone there adored the said heretics. This was the same period.

Item. He said that he saw Prader and his companion, heretics, in the house of Raimund de Quiders the witness' nephew, at Mas-Saintes-Puelles, and he saw there Raimund de Quiders himself, and Guilhelma, mother of Raimund. The aforesaid heretics ate, and the witness adored the aforesaid heretics there but did not see others adore. This was 5 years ago.

Item. He said that he saw Raimund de Nariqua, heretic, in the house of Na Riqua, mother of said heretic, at Mas-Saintes-Puelles, and he saw there many strangers whom he did not know, and Arnald Godalh who had come there with the witness. The witness and Arnald Godalh adored the aforesaid heretics there. This was the same period. And while exiting the house of said Na Riqua he ran into Stephan de Rosengue and Peire Gauta senior in the doorway.

Item. He said that he saw two heretics in the house of Peire [de Saint-]Andrea at Mas-Saintes-Puelles, and he saw there Raimund Gauta. And the witness himself adored the aforesaid heretics there, but he did not see the aforesaid Raimund adore because the witness only ran into said Raimund in the aforesaid house. This was the same period.

He believed the aforementioned heretics to be good men and to have good faith and true and friends of God and one could be saved by them. He heard them speak errors of visible things, that God did not make them, and that the holy host is not the body of Christ, and that baptism and matrimony have no value in salvation, and that the bodies of the dead will not rise. But he himself did not believe then what they said. It was about 20 years ago that he first believed the heretics to be good, and 5 years ago that he stopped believing so. He did no see heretics anywhere else nor gave or sent them anything, nor accepted anything from them, except one time giving them figs. All of the foregoing was confessed to brother Ferrier at Limoux.

Afterwards he said that he saw Bernard de Mairevilla and his companion, heretics, in the house of Pons Gran and he saw there with them Jordan de Quiders and Guilhem Ayner, but he did not adore nor saw adoring. This was about 5 years ago.

He abjured heresy and swore, etc. He recognized then that he did wicked things because after the time when peace was made at Paris he had abjured heresy. And swore to persecute heretics, etc., and likewise heretics he believed and adored. Witnesses: Arnald, prior of Saint-Sernin; Odo, order of preachers; and brother Bernard de Caux, inquisitor, who read this.